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[分享]美军将淘汰9mm手枪

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发表于 2014-9-5 21:38:26 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
http://bearingarms.com/army-wants-new-handgun-way-can-now/
美军将淘汰Beretta M9等9mm手枪,正在招标更精确停止作用更大的口径,目前的考虑包括.357 SIG和S&W .40等.
发表于 2014-9-5 22:38:30 | 显示全部楼层
哦啊,这不是真的吧?我正打算弄个1911呢!
发表于 2014-9-5 22:44:01 | 显示全部楼层
手枪厂商的大生意又来了。
发表于 2014-9-6 01:52:59 | 显示全部楼层
又有大单子了!各家拿出本事来。
发表于 2014-9-6 16:09:00 | 显示全部楼层
先提醒啊,左轮同学你没看仔细吧,原文上来就说了40和357sig根本就没入选,原因是滑套磨损之类的问题。dead on arrival里面的dead和dead on target里面的dead是不同的。原文说的是陆军打算回到45ACP,不过需要一种模块化的双排供弹45ACP手枪,普通的1911也pass掉了。后面介绍了一种枪,金属框架(这个要求踢掉了P250),双排供弹,45ACP。

陆军不是人人都有手枪,不少人手里就一步枪,有些人是自己掏钱买的。美国为了领导北约,还得在9mm上晃,这文章估猜测的成分大于实证,看着玩就好。

如果单纯讨论哪种口径好,根本说不清。现代战场上除了中东大叔,印度三哥什么的,哪还有躶体目标了。一线战斗部队普及了防弹衣之后,手枪这种又不准又不狠的武器,最主要的目的就是“掩护士兵逃跑”或者“掩护步兵找一把步枪”。从这个角度看,还真就是9mm最实在了。随便一把都能装10几20发,这才是掩护呢。非要设计新枪,就研究怎么一种跟被雷打差不多重,但是自带折叠枪托的全自动冲锋手枪好了。
发表于 2014-9-6 19:15:31 | 显示全部楼层
美国陆军的轻武器计划相当的没谱,当热闹看就好了。双排.45acp又不是啥新概念 MK23,HK45早测试过了又是炒冷饭而已。
 楼主| 发表于 2014-9-6 22:38:50 | 显示全部楼层
http://www.armytimes.com/article ... s-shot-replacing-M9

Your next pistol

Officials are not allowed to discuss the selection process while requirements are being written. But Thomas did say the next pistol would be a commercial, off-the-shelf product.

Narrowing the field is not especially hard. The soldier requirements division must first consider existing programs of record. If another government agency has a pistol program that meets or exceeds the Army's requirements, that is the one you will get.

There are some strong contenders in that category, and they are not limited to the .45 caliber and 9mm varieties. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in 2010 made a big switch to the .40 caliber, and many military leaders would like to do the same.

Smith and Wesson's .40 cal M&P nudged the Glock 22 and 27 in the ATF competition. Scores were so close that both received a part of the $80 million contract — and prime standing as the Army enters its search.

"It's kind of hard to beat the Smith and Wesson M&P right now," said one industry insider from a competing company, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "It is a polymer gun with high-capacity steel magazines. It has a positive safety and ambidextrous controls ... they simply came out of the gate with the right gun."

Other companies with existing government contracts and weapons that meet Army requirements include:

• Beretta. The company in 2010 launched the 92A1 9mm and 96A1 .40 S&W pistols. They include increased capacity magazines, removable front sights, an accessory rail, captive recoil spring assembly, frame recoil buffer and sand-resistant magazines. The Army would need no transitional training if it chose the 9mm, and parts compatibility is 90 percent.

Beretta's next-generation Px4 family of pistols has polymer frames, modular grips and a rotary barrel system similar to a bolt-action rifle. The Px4 Storm Special Duty .45 ACP, which had been submitted for the now-defunct Joint Combat Pistol program, includes a long barrel for suppressor mounting.

• Sig Sauer. Many Navy SEALs carry the company's P226, and the Coast Guard has adopted the P229. The industry insider called the Sig a "workhorse," but said the P229 is an unlikely selection because it is double-action only and has no positive safety.

The .40 caliber P250 probably has little to no chance. The pistol had 58 stoppages, 13 of which were gun-induced, during the ATF competition. Smith & Wesson had 16 shooter-induced stoppages and Glock had seven, and neither had gun-induced stoppages.

• Heckler & Koch. The HK P2000 is lauded by the Border Patrol. They love its modular grips, dual slide release levers and mounting rails that easily accommodate a variety of lights, lasers and accessories.

• Glock. A longtime favorite among many special operators, the latest variants include modular grips and shorter trigger distances. The recoil spring also has been replaced with a dual recoil spring assembly to reduce recoil and increase life cycle.

But the venerable Glock does have its detractors, the industry insider said — primarily because the pistol lacks an external safety. In addition, there is no metal-on-metal contact in the magazine catch-recess area, causing magazines to wear out faster and sometimes drop out of the gun.

• Colt and Springfield. Both companies are competing to replace the Marine Corps' M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistol. If the winner becomes a program of record before the Army opens its selection process, then it would be in the running. But Colt's variant is a single-action, cocked and locked pistol, which is not popular with many folks in Big Army.


S & W .40是强有力竞争者
发表于 2014-9-7 09:16:37 | 显示全部楼层
一楼的文章第一页中间部分:
The article goes on to say that the competition will be an open-caliber competition… which is false.
文章称竞争不限于特定口径,但这是假的!

The .357 SIG and .40 S&W are dead on arrival as military calibers.
357和40一上来就被cut了。(理由如下:)

The Army wants a handgun caliber that is durable and long-lasting, and which doesn’t beat guns to death prematurely. Law enforcement agencies are already abandoning both of these calibers because of continual frame and slide cracking issues. They are returning to 9mm (due to advances in ammunition performance with modern hollowpoints)  and .45 (due to the general thought that “bigger is better” and advances in modern hollowpoint design).

As the military isn’t impressed with 9mm ball ammunition (due to the Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, expanding ammunition is illegal for international warfare in most circumstances), this means that .45ACP will once again reign as the Army’s handgun caliber, by default.

这段说的很明白,357和40直接dead了,然后给了  原因。当然了,之前的讨论时基于第一个链接的文章,左轮同学后面再给另外一个文章,那就是另一个故事了。不同的作者有不同的想法,当然了必然也是从不同的公司收了钱,我敢打赌第二个链接的作者必须姓Smith。
 楼主| 发表于 2014-9-7 16:46:03 | 显示全部楼层
Bohr
一楼的文章第一页中间部分:
The article goes on to say that the competition will be an open-caliber competition… which is false.
文章称竞争不限于特定口径,但这是假的!

The .357 SIG and .40 S&W are dead on arrival as military calibers.
357和40一上来就被cut了。(理由如下:)

The Army wants a handgun caliber that is durable and long-lasting, and which doesn’t beat guns to death prematurely. Law enforcement agencies are already abandoning both of these calibers because of continual frame and slide cracking issues. They are returning to 9mm (due to advances in ammunition performance with modern hollowpoints)  and .45 (due to the general thought that “bigger is better” and advances in modern hollowpoint design).

As the military isn’t impressed with 9mm ball ammunition (due to the Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, expanding ammunition is illegal for international warfare in most circumstances), this means that .45ACP will once again reign as the Army’s handgun caliber, by default.

这段说的很明白,357和40直接dead了,然后给了  原因。当然了,之前的讨论时基于第一个链接的文章,左轮同学后面再给另外一个文章,那就是另一个故事了。不同的作者有不同的想法,当然了必然也是从不同的公司收了钱,我敢打赌第二个链接的作者必须姓Smith。



用哪种都是猜测,我也没全读完,也没有收集更多的文章,最近这类话题特别多。

已经知道是:
9mm将退出美陆军主流。
更大的口径和更高的精确度是下一代陆军手枪的方向。
S&W, Glock, SIG等知名厂商都被邀请投标。

对我的影响:本来要买一支和M9接近的92FS, 现在失去兴趣了
发表于 2014-9-7 19:18:46 | 显示全部楼层
其实我觉得M9那裸露的枪管,挺有特点的。
发表于 2014-9-8 17:10:00 | 显示全部楼层
那从另一个角度说,他们的退来来的货会不会二手出呀? :P
发表于 2014-9-9 19:04:23 | 显示全部楼层
我个人还是比较喜欢9mm, 因为弹药便宜不少, 而且据说9mm全被甲弹的对防弹衣的穿透力强一些, 注意穿透力不同于停止作用, 但是军用弹都是强调穿透力的, 因为战场目标大多有防护, 所以首先要穿透防护. 所以如果对抗专业的对手还是要考虑穿透力和火力强度和持续性.
 楼主| 发表于 2014-9-9 22:18:00 | 显示全部楼层
美军还有一条反对M9的理由是:套筒拉开后,灰尘杂物可能会进去。
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