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<活动召集>2008三月份Garibaldi Neve Traverse三到四日雪原冰川雪山

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 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-29 08:43:21 | 显示全部楼层
這個不是hut to hut snowshoeing, 一定要背四季帳,  睡雪地


The mountain School可能能提供或出借一些装备给我们,具体信息会在information Session上获悉
 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-29 08:54:14 | 显示全部楼层
Andre(Mountain Guide from Westcoast Mountain Guides)给我的有关参加者fitness level的回复

Try and snowshoe to Elfin lakes hut this winter and imagine you will be carrying (or actually carry) a 22kg pack. If it feels fine, you are fit enough.
 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-29 12:11:06 | 显示全部楼层
游客
[quote]lulululu
Andre(Mountain Guide from Westcoast Mountain Guides)给我的有关参加者fitness level的回复

[quote]
Try and snowshoe to Elfin lakes hut this winter and imagine you will be carrying (or actually carry) a 22kg pack. If it feels fine, you are fit enough.
[/quote]

The main issue is not fitness ( many people in the club can do that you mentioned it),but equipment for winter backcamping. That will be a big dough for everything from head to toe ready to go. That is why some of ones have to think about twice.[/quote]

gears can all be rented at Mountain Equipment Co-op  and Canada West might provide some gears :o
发表于 2007-10-29 14:13:54 | 显示全部楼层
lulululu
Andre(Mountain Guide from Westcoast Mountain Guides)给我的有关参加者fitness level的回复

[quote]
Try and snowshoe to Elfin lakes hut this winter and imagine you will be carrying (or actually carry) a 22kg pack. If it feels fine, you are fit enough.
[/quote]

That's great! Now we have an objective goal.  :wink:
发表于 2007-10-29 14:35:09 | 显示全部楼层
從報名開始便想到以下一些有關Snow camping和Garibaldi Neve Traverse的問題, 看遍了Clubtread上有關的帖子也不是很清楚, 原希望在講座中得到解答, 但可惜當天要上班.

現在請敎各位前輩, 或煩請在講座中替我發問. 謝謝!  :)

不好意思, 很長的一大堆問題......

The Trip
I presume that most of these questions would be answered in the information session.
-        When?
-        What would happen if the weather/snow condition was bad during the designated period? Postpone the trip?
-        How did the other groups arrange their cars at the two trailheads?
-        Itinerary
-        Route map (as in the GPS waypoints posted?)
-        When to pay?

Foot wear
-        Would you recommend winter boots for snowshoeing?
-        Or since we’re carrying heavy loads, is it better to use the regular backpacking boots for better support?
-        What about plastic mountaineering boots (very heavy…)? Any recommendation?
-        Are crampons required for this trip?

I have been wearing my leather hiking boots for snowshoeing day trips, sometimes it did get quite cold… so I think for multi-day trips winter boots might be a good idea.

Sleeping bag
The temperature rating on the CWMS gear list is –10 to –15 deg C.
-        Is this rating for staying in a hut/snowcave or tent?
-        If this is not warm enough for the Traverse, how warm? Down vs. synthetic? Or down bag + overbag?

After reading the threads on CT, it seems to me that there are a few options to stretch the rating of your 3-season bag, e.g. fleece liner, overbag, wear your clothes, etc.

4-season Tent
-        To buy or not to buy? (I guess I should answer this question myself :P)
-        MSR Fury? Hilleberg Nammatj 2? TNF Mountain 25? MEC tents? Any recommendation?

Avalanche Safety/Courses
I don’t have any training in avalanche safety and I’m interested in taking a course.
-        Is anyone else interested?
-        What about mountaineering courses?
-        Could the CWMS offer us a group rate? Or can we take it somewhere else?

Prescription Glacier Glasses
-        Where to get those in Vancouver or have to order those online (http://www.opticus.com/)?
-        What about overglasses/ski goggles? Any other alternatives?
 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-29 19:18:20 | 显示全部楼层
jinsi
從報名開始便想到以下一些有關Snow camping和Garibaldi Neve Traverse的問題, 看遍了Clubtread上有關的帖子也不是很清楚, 原希望在講座中得到解答, 但可惜當天要上班.

現在請敎各位前輩, 或煩請在講座中替我發問. 謝謝!  :)

不好意思, 很長的一大堆問題......



我会把你的问题打印带去问, 我试着说一些信息和我的经历体验. :o
 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-29 19:48:26 | 显示全部楼层
The Trip
I presume that most of these questions would be answered in the information session.
-        When?
三月份中旬? 具体时间待定,要看天气

-        What would happen if the weather/snow condition was bad during the designated period? Postpone the trip?
-        How did the other groups arrange their cars at the two trailheads?
好象是由CWMS安排

-        Itinerary
-        Route map (as in the GPS waypoints posted?)
我买了这个
http://www.clarkgeomatics.ca/products.html



-        When to pay?

Foot wear
-        Would you recommend winter boots for snowshoeing?
-        Or since we’re carrying heavy loads, is it better to use the regular backpacking boots for better support?

-        What about plastic mountaineering boots (very heavy…)? Any recommendation?
-        Are crampons required for this trip?

I have been wearing my leather hiking boots for snowshoeing day trips, sometimes it did get quite cold… so I think for multi-day trips winter boots might be a good idea.

Crampons may be necessary depending on snow conditions,


WATERPROOF backpacking boots, 不知道winter boots的防水性怎样,我看过的都不好. support也不够吧


Sleeping bag
The temperature rating on the CWMS gear list is –10 to –15 deg C.
-        Is this rating for staying in a hut/snowcave or tent?
-        If this is not warm enough for the Traverse, how warm? Down vs. synthetic? Or down bag + overbag?

I'm a cold sleeper, I'll use at least-18 sleeping bag +bivy bag

Winter Camping
http://www.clubtread.com/articledetail.asp?ID=49

雪地露营体会
https://www.crossna.org/forum.ph ... hlight=%D1%A9%B5%D8


We might need to look at other factors which is causing us to be cold as well.

   1. Is my sleeping pad deflating?
   2. Do I put a Mylar ground sheet between the pad and my bag which can be wrapped around me?
   3. Carbohydrates and some protein before bed?
   4. Is my bladder empty (The extra body fluid requires heat to keep warm)
   5. Consider a vapour barrier and wool blend base layers – particularly covering the legs
   6. Max out the number of people in my tent to increase the inside temperature.

synthetic bag做到很低温会很重很bulky,down的湿了以后就会很不保温,要waterproof shell的



After reading the threads on CT, it seems to me that there are a few options to stretch the rating of your 3-season bag, e.g. fleece liner, overbag, wear your clothes, etc.

4-season Tent
-        To buy or not to buy? (I guess I should answer this question myself :P)
-        MSR Fury? Hilleberg Nammatj 2? TNF Mountain 25? MEC tents? Any recommendation?

My thoughts for tents is the MSR Fusion II (2) which is 7ibs packed. I like the big D door on it.

http://www.msrcorp.com/tents/fusion2.asp

TNF Mountain 25 gets bad reviews for snow loading and as one person suggested or equated it to the “Hindenberg”


I have a  4 season 3 ppl tent, I can share with other 2. you can search 4 season tent reviews on CT Gotta Love Gear board
http://www.clubtread.com/sforum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=10


Avalanche Safety/Courses
I don’t have any training in avalanche safety and I’m interested in taking a course.
-        Is anyone else interested?
-        What about mountaineering courses?
-        Could the CWMS offer us a group rate? Or can we take it somewhere else?

I'm interested in the avi course either, I'll look for more info.


Prescription Glacier Glasses
-        Where to get those in Vancouver or have to order those online (http://www.opticus.com/)?
-        What about overglasses/ski goggles? Any other alternatives?

Do you wear glasses or contacts? If you wear glasses I would go with clip on lens and get the shade protectors for the sides. Make sure your glass lens are large enough to protect your complete eye otherwise use Goggles with a good polarizer. You should have Goggles with you anyways.
发表于 2007-10-29 21:28:03 | 显示全部楼层
lulululu

我会把你的问题打印带去问, 我试着说一些信息和我的经历体验. :o


謝謝lulu! 那篇雪地露營體會很真切及實用, 之前已看了好幾遍了.  :cool!:
 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-30 13:35:22 | 显示全部楼层
jinsi
[quote]lulululu

我会把你的问题打印带去问, 我试着说一些信息和我的经历体验. :o


謝謝lulu! 那篇雪地露營體會很真切及實用, 之前已看了好幾遍了.  :cool!:[/quote]

金丝MM,我把你的一些问题发给了朋友Bob,这是他的回复

Hi Gloria,

Wow. Lots of questions!  I'll explain at some point
when I have more time.

In the winter most of my multi-day trips are ski trips
so I wear ski boots.  If I am snowshoeing I use my
leather mountaineering boots. In the winter it can be
hard to keep them dry on multi day trips so you have
to expect they will get wet. There are strategies for
keeping your feet dry (ie plastic bags). Make sure you
have down booties for the evenings though. Plastic
mountanerring boots should work, although they might
beat up the snowshoes a bit. If i was doing the neve
for the first time, on snowshows would I bring
crampons? Probably but I would monitor CT, Bivouac,
etc for conditions.

All the tents you list are good double wall tents. The
nice thing about a double wall tent is that if it
getts really cold and you zip it right up it's good
for between 5 and 7 degrees, although you will get
frost in the tent.

Don't know what to say about sleeping arrangements.
you'll have to try different things. I keep a set of
cloths just for sleeping as i prefer not to sleep in
the cloths I wore all day. It is better to sleep in
less cloths than more. you need two insulating pads.
I'm not a fan of overbags but then i have 3 sleeping
bags (0, -9, -21 C) all under 3 pounds. The CWMS
ratings are going to be accurate for most of the time.
I've been out when the forecast was -15 but ended up
being -25 so you never know. Your sleeping bag rating
should be near the forecasted temperature range. You
can use your jacket and a nalgene filled wit hot
watter for suplimental heat. Zipping two sleeping bags
together is another possibility.

Sorry I can't help you with prescription glacier
glasses. Try CT. Googles are a MUST, no matter what.

Hope this helps.

Bob
发表于 2007-10-30 15:29:01 | 显示全部楼层
lulululu
金丝MM,我把你的一些问题发给了朋友Bob,这是他的回复...

:r:  :gd:

If i was doing the neve
for the first time, on snowshows would I bring
crampons? Probably but I would monitor CT, Bivouac,
etc for conditions.

那要看看crampons了 :wink:

Don't know what to say about sleeping arrangements.
you'll have to try different things. ...
I'm not a fan of overbags but then i have 3 sleeping
bags (0, -9, -21 C) all under 3 pounds...

那似乎可試試用兩個睡袋, 我有一個是-9C down, 一個是0C synthetic. 然後再決定是否要再買一個更暖的($$$啊! :roll: )

Googles are a MUST, no matter what.

It's good to know!
发表于 2007-10-30 22:25:00 | 显示全部楼层
如果走得动,我们也去! :lol:
 楼主| 发表于 2007-10-30 23:09:00 | 显示全部楼层
靓女
如果走得动,我们也去! :lol:


那你俩常出来走,就没问题 :wink:
发表于 2007-11-25 10:43:07 | 显示全部楼层
版主:

新人报到,很有兴趣。可以和我联络一下吗? 谢谢!

Iris 778-371-1544
 楼主| 发表于 2007-11-26 11:03:44 | 显示全部楼层
dingdong
版主:

新人报到,很有兴趣。可以和我联络一下吗? 谢谢!

Iris 778-371-1544



welcome, I'll call you tonight
发表于 2007-11-30 21:43:17 | 显示全部楼层
赶紧报个名先,否则满员啦,明知山有虎,偏向虎山行
发表于 2007-11-30 22:38:01 | 显示全部楼层
laizhiyong
明知山有虎,偏向虎山行


:lol: 我若干年前练建筑字体的时候就写的这句话
 楼主| 发表于 2007-12-12 13:49:11 | 显示全部楼层
the email reply from Brian which I got today:
From: Brian Jones - The Mountain School [mailto:brian@themountainschool.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 12:50 PM
To: 'Gloria'
Cc: Linda Knight (cwms)
Subject: RE: Garibaldi Neve



Hi Gloria,



Thanks for the confirmation here about the Garibaldi Neve traverse with your club members!



In terms of a 4-day trip, the itinerary would be similar to this:



Day-1: meet in Squamish and review al gear, weather and avalanche considerations for that date. Arrange vehicle transfer by placing 1-2 vehicles at the Black Tusk trailhead. After this drive up to Diamond Head trailhead and start traveling up to Elfin Shelter. 1st night in Elfin Shelter, or snow-camping nearby if desired. Elevation gain is about 700 meters, distance is about 8 km.



Day-2: travel out from Elfin Shelter onto the Garibaldi Glacier and up onto the Neve. A tent camp will be set up at the high point on the glaciers near Glacier Pikes at around 2,000 meters elevation. Elevation gain is about 700 meters up, 200 meters down; distance is about 12 km.



Day 3: Travel around Mt Garibaldi and down the Warren Glacier, then cross over past Table Mountain onto Garibaldi Lake. Cross Garibaldi Lake to camp Battleship Islands shelters. These are cooking shelters that we would set tents up beside. Elevation gain is about 250 meters up, 500 meters down; distance is about 11 km.



Day 4: Exit down Garibaldi Trail to the trailhead. Pick up vehicles and do reverse car-shuttle to pick up vehicles at Diamond Head. Back in Vancouver around 4-5 pm. Elevation loss is about 1,100 meters down, distance is about 10 km.



With 6 people we will be able to run the trip for $445 per person for a 4 day trip. We would run this at a max. ratio of 1 Guide per 6 people. If you have 8 or more we would require a 2nd guide, but I will keep the cost the same for you in order to simplify your planning. If you have less than 6 people the cost will change, let me know if this will be the case. We will include a pre-trip planning session in advance as well to go over gear, food and logistics. This should be at least 3-4 days in advance and can be at our office in the evening or during the day. All Avalanche safety equipment is included in this cost. People have to supply their own personal gear, food and transportation.



We would cover a lot of topics on this trip, including navigation on glaciers, snow camping skills, avi safety and glacier travel. I would expect each day will be fairly full, but if extra time (and energy) permits at the end of the day there are many short hikes that can be done. This could include to the top of the Gargoyles, Glacier Pikes, Clinker Peak, Taylor Meadows. Really though, most groups will find that the traverse itself is enough.



If you wish to cover more avalanche skills in depth during the traverse, we can certainly build this into the program. We would include a separate evening session in advance that is purely on Avalanche safety.  Everyone would also get a Canadian Avalanche Association Certificate of completion for an AST-1 course. If you wish to do this, the cost will be an extra $50/person in order to cover the avalanche manuals, handouts, extra class session and certificates.



Please let us know as soon as you can which dates you would prefer, and then we can go ahead and confirm all the details. We will require 50% payment in advance in order to confirm this trip, with the final due 1 month in advance. Feel free to call or email with any other questions!





Brian Jones

Director



Canada West Mountain School

www.themountainschool.com

Vancouver 604.878.7007

Squamish 604.815.3451

Toll free in North America 1.888.892.2266

Fax 604.876.7047



Whistler Ski Guides

www.whistlerskiguides.com

Whistler 604.932.7807

Toll free in North America 1.888.892.2266
发表于 2007-12-12 20:55:38 | 显示全部楼层
Thank you LuLu for all your effort :gd:

I would like to learn more about avalanche safety. As a new hand in winter hiking,  like me, it is "a must" learn  :oops:
发表于 2007-12-21 20:12:58 | 显示全部楼层
如只需请两天假,报名一人。
 楼主| 发表于 2008-1-8 17:00:02 | 显示全部楼层
刚收到CWMS guide Brian Jones的email,催促定时间和交定金,现在能定下来的是四人(lulu,jinsi,daisy,swimmer),我希望最少能有六人参加,八人二个向导最好.

我想定的时间是三月21-24四天(二月下旬和三月上旬的坏天气机率大些)。

大家看呢,想参加还没有定论的朋友能否给出决定,谢谢

Hello Gloria,

I'm just following up to confirm that you received my email last month about the Neve details (see below).

I will need to get confirmation of dates and a deposit on this as soon as possible in order to get our Guides booked. Could you please send me the dates that are going to work best for your team?

Thanks!

Brian Jones
Director



Canada West Mountain School

www.themountainschool.com

Vancouver 604.878.7007

Squamish 604.815.3451

Toll free in North America 1.888.892.2266

Fax 604.876.7047



Whistler Ski Guides

www.whistlerskiguides.com

Whistler 604.932.7807

Toll free in North America 1.888.892.2266
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